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Post Info TOPIC: 50-D Wants to be a narrow front


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50-D Wants to be a narrow front


Hi folks,I have a 50 wide front that I use to compete in antique tractor pulls with.After pulling for over 20 yrs. it is still very successfull pulling in classes over 6000 lbs.I've been thinking it's time to make a small change just to mix things up a bit.I would like to switch to a narrow front end to compete in lighter classes.I have access to a 30 narrow front housing and spindle.Before taking a perfectly good front end apart to see if this is a bolt on conversion,I was hoping someone knew what problems I'd have to overcome.After researching and studying parts manuals, I believe the 30 steering box was designed to sit directly on top of the splined short pedestal shaft running up through the lower pedestal housing,unlike the 50 which has the box sitting atop a cast tower in front of the radiator.The 50,wheather wide or narrow,must have a long shaft splined on the steering box end running down through this tower to the lower housing,connecting to the pedestal shaft.I cannot tell from pictures if this long shaft would simply connect to the 30's splined pedestal or how this connection is made without taking mine apart.If these parts are just not compatable,I will keep searching until I find a 40/50 narrow front before taking mine apart.I do have machining skills and extra wide front parts but don't want to do anything that I can't undo to return back to a wide front if I choose.



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Tenny Johnson


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You may be able to just bolt them up.  I could be mistaken but it looks like the same pedestal on 30s and 40s and the steering box or tower bolt down to the top.  But you'll still need a long shaft.



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Thanks for your thoughts Mike.I also thought the pedestal looks to be the same for the 30,40 and 50 models but I've only seen pictures of the 40 and 50.I am going to buy the 30 pedestal set up and see what problems I need to overcome.I'm hoping the shaft coming down from the tower mounted steering box on my 50 has a splined lower coupler that will interchange with a wide or narrow front.Probably won't be so lucky but I will find out in a few weeks.

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Tenny Johnson


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I just checked my parts books and both use the same pedestal, TGO-8859.  I've had the front off my E-4 and I can tell you for sure that the vertical shaft is one piece, and with those cast iron hubs on, very heavy.  Since you have a wide front, if the bottom end of the shaft is splined the same as the top end of the 30 shaft, then you could put a coupling between them.  Check the splines, I would bet they are a standard size.  If they are you could probably find an off-the-shelf coupling at a local outfit for bearings and drive components.  I use BDI because they have an office nearby  and my company does a lot of business with them.



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Thanks for the info on the pedestal at least being correct for my 50.I was afraid that the vertical shaft was a one piece unit,attached to the pedestal on the 40 and 50.Now I know what to expect.The coupler idea is my next best bet,if the splines do match.Winter's still not over up here in the north east,but soon I'll give it a try.

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Tenny Johnson


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I was just looking at my parts manual again.  I don't want to give you bad information.  The vertical shaft on the wide front has a bushing on the lower end and the steering arm is just below that.  There's no exploded view so I can't tell if has splines or maybe a key.  Looks like it may be too short to reach the lower shaft splines.  Proceed with caution and don't alter anything that can't be replaced until you're sure. 

Where are you in the northeast?  We get to Boston area a couple of times a year to see grandkids.  I can never be sure winter's over until May 1 around here.  A few years ago we had an Easter weekend snowstorm that left 30".  I took a chance last Sunday and took the plow and chains off the Ford that I plow with.

Here's one of my E-3s.  You can see the fenders on the second one in the back.

 



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brock10.jpgYeah,the parts manual I have lacks detail on the steering shaft also.I do have a parts tractor with a wide front so I think I will take it apart enough to see how things attach and couple up.Nice E-3.I was thinking I needed one of these beautys for the lighter class'es years ago but ran out of room to carry one around.Below is a picture of my other tractor,a 570 Super weighing in at 12,000 lbs.after a sucessfull pulling event at the famous Tunbridge Worlds Fair.It's taken 1st. in both the 10 and 12,000 lb. class there 4 years in a row.Really ticks off the JD and IH guys around here.Mine are the only Cockys around these parts.There's also another1200 lbs. on a belly bracket that can't be seen in this picture.Almost to much weight to throw around for the fun of it..Almost
I live in central Vt.Good weather is slow coming this year.Terrible stuff going on in the Boston area.Looks like they've got one of the SOB's and hopefully the other one soon.I hope your family wasn't affected.



-- Edited by Buda on Friday 19th of April 2013 07:18:55 AM

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Tenny Johnson


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Looks like a day's work just hanging those weights.  I scanned some pages from my parts books (originals from '46 and '50).  Hope they help.  I'll send them by private message. 



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I finally took the time to tackle this project and with lots of measuring and precautions,it went real well.Not for the faint of heart or anyone with out a machine shop(or friend with a machine shop)as these shafts were never intended to be joined.End result is good though.I posted details to danos 40 wide front post if interested.



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Tenny Johnson


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Sounds like it went well for you.  Good thing you have a friend with a machine shop.  I was a T&D maker and been around machines most of my career and would have done it the same way.  I used to be able to take small parts in the repair or make new.  I retired in July but I think I'll have to get myself some machines to set up in the old chicken coop.



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If yours is gas check my new post in the Buda forum to download the factory engine manual.



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Small world as actually in this case I am the friend.I also work as a T&D maker in a wire forming factory(safety pins,drapery hooks,badge pins and pretty much anything else made from bending wire)Most of the production machines are designed and built in house so I'm lucky to have access to a pretty nice tool room at the end of my normal day to dub on my own stuff.It's nice to know just what I'm trying to achieve and do it myself rather then having to farm jobs out and try to explain to someone else my crazy notions.

  My 50 is a diesel but not too much different then the gas in many ways.The manual is surely worth a look.Thanks

TJ   



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Tenny Johnson


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Hi Tenney,

I  just reread your post to Dano.  Somehow I thought you had a friend in a machine shop.  We exchanged  emails when you first posted about the front end swap and I seem to recall you saying you worked at a sawmill.  I just retired from Lincoln Electric (welding machines and consumables) in Cleveland.  Mostly sheet metal stamping and motor/generator/transformer lamination dies.  I left the tool room in '89 then spent nine years as a tool designer.  I kind of miss the work but not working.

I picked up and Oliver 1550 back in December.  Looked pretty good and the price was right.  Of course it was worse than I thought once I got it home.  Pics attached, when I brought it home and how it looks now..S5000609.JPGS5000679.JPG

 



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Hi Mike:Nice Oliver ! I'd like a Cockshutt version of one but they are to new to pull around here as an antique class.I needed some lighter hubs for my 50 twenty years ago to replace the heavy cast split ones and I got them off a 1650 parts tractor like yours yours.They are still on the wide front O removed.
You're right about me working at a saw mill.That's what I've done most of my life(so far). I started 40 years ago when 1 of my brothers bought a mill.8 yrs later I had a chance to be an apprentice machinist at this wire form factory owned by an older friend that had recently started up and was growing fast.Since I loved the idea of designing and building machines,I jumped at the chance.After about 4 years in the shop,a small,local mill came up for sale so convinced the local bank and mill owner to take a chance on me and I bought it.Then I hired a couple guys and worked my a** off to make a good living,all the time keeping the old equipment fixed til I could afford newer.25 years,2 back surgery's and a few other ailments later,I retired the mill and made a living restoring antique auto's and trucks,something I'd learned in school and done as a hobby since I was 14.A few years ago the chance came up again to work "part time"at the machine shop/factory I'd worked at some 30 years earlier as it was growing again.For a while I tried to do both,my own work and at the shop but after I'd gotten all my own promised jobs done,I devoted most of my time to the machine shop.The part time has turned into over time so I put my own work on hold for a while(it's now been about 3 years full time)I'm treated very well there and I do really like it.Kind of Ironic that I'm now building repair parts for the very machines I'd designed and built all those years ago.What goes around really does come around!
I do enjoy the less physically demanding work as my back and shoulders are shot from years of bull'en and jamm'en at the saw mills.Part of the reason I don't want to load my tractors with weights(like in the picture) the way I used to.
The years at the mill were hard,hot and cold,depending on the season but great when I was younger.Now it makes me appreciate how much easier I've got it.If my back allows me to bend enough to get my shoes on with out too much trouble in the morning,I'm good to go to work.

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Tenny Johnson


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Do you ever get on the YT forums?  A guy posted that there was a Cockshutt 1650 at an auction here in Ohio.  I had just checked an auction near me the week before and they had one that week, too.  I thought it may have been the same one but the guy went to the auction and posted a picture later.



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I do bump around on the YT forum some.I like the Cockshutts because they are different.Mine are usually the only one's at the pulls around here.At least the Oliver/Cockshutts would be a little easier to get parts for.Some parts for the older ones like mine can be a bit of a bugger.The antique classes at the pulls I attend allow tractors 1960 and older.There are some that allow everything.I take the 570 Super to these since it's a 61.

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Tenny Johnson
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